Dr. Robert Malone, an outspoken critic of the COVID-19 vaccines, discussed his new book “Lies My Government Told Me” with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., in a recent episode of “RFK Jr. The Defender Podcast.”

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Dr. Robert Malone, who helped develop the mRNA technology used in COVID-19 vaccines and now has become an outspoken critic of the vaccines, discussed his new book “Lies My Government Told Me” with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., in a recent episode of “RFK Jr. The Defender Podcast.”

According to Malone, U.S. Americans for the last three years have been subjected to “military-grade information warfare — capability and technology that was designed for our opponents for military warfare outside of the U.S. — that has been turned on American citizens.”

Malone told Kennedy, I know “that’s a lot of words, some strong words, but I think that’s really what we have here.”

Kennedy and Malone discussed the “psychological operations” employed by the U.S. government during the COVID-19 pandemic and earlier in U.S. history that relies on fear and propaganda messaging as tools of social control.

Malone said the information warfare regarding the U.S. government’s response to COVID-19 appears to have been largely deployed through the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

“What’s been deployed has been basically the technology and capabilities that were designed to respond to terrorism, but they’ve been deployed against the likes of you, me and Dr. McCullough and so many others,” Malone said.

In his book, Malone explains how during the COVID-19 pandemic DHS “defined misinformation, disinformation and malinformation as a form of domestic terrorism.”

“They made this odd kind of logic jump where they spoke about basically the January 6th events and domestic violence,” Malone said, “and then they linked that to vaccines and vaccine hesitancy and stated in alert that they anticipated there would be domestic violence associated with protests against the masks and the vaccine mandates — and that that should be responded to as terrorism.”

“I strongly suspect that they had intelligence and reacted to the trucker protest as it was developing as another domestic terrorism act.”

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Kennedy pointed out that while the original charter of the CIA forbade the CIA from propagandizing Americans, in the 1970s it was discovered to have infiltrated the American press through Operation Mockingbird.

“So in 1976, President Carter’s CIA director, said, ‘We are not going to infiltrate the U.S. press anymore’ and they acknowledged that it was illegal,” Kennedy told Malone.

“But the following year, Carl Bernstein did an article for Rolling Stone in which he said there’s at least 400 of these reporters still out there [that are on the CIA’s list] … [and] in 2014, President Obama made it legal once again for the CIA to propagandize Americans,” Kennedy added.

Malone responded by saying in his book he discusses how Obama has been a “major voice” championing the logic that the protection of democracy requires censorship. “And Mr. Biden, no surprise, seems to also be a strong advocate for this position,” Malone said.

Malone and Kennedy went on to discuss Mattias Desmet’s theory of mass formation, which gained much attention when Malone talked about the theory, referring to the concept as “mass formation psychosis,” on Joe Rogan’s podcast in late December 2021.

Malone told Kennedy he considered Desmet — a professor of clinical psychology and a psychoanalytic psychotherapist at Ghent University in Belgium who studies the psychology of totalitarianism — to be a good friend.

Both Kennedy and Malone said they found Desmet’s theory to be a relatively accurate analysis of human psychology and behavior.

According to Kennedy, the CIA has a long history of “working on this” by exploring questions such as, “How do you get large groups of people to behave? How do you get social groups — societies — to do what you want, to accept authoritarian control?”

On this point, Malone and Kennedy talked about the U.S. government’s collusion with Twitter to censor its users.

Malone said he considered Twitter to be a “military-grade weapon that is designed and powered with some of the capabilities for crowd control, for crowd management, for crowd motivation, for crowd direction.”

At the end of the interview, Malone told Kennedy that one of the things he found most troubling during the COVID-19 pandemic was the “substitution of hope for science” that was “reinforced through this weaponized propaganda.”

Malone said:

“We were basically trained to accept an unlicensed, unsafe, non-effective medical product based on no science — on hope — and trained into us through this well-developed system of propaganda, censorship, information control and everything else.

“What it means for the future is grim unless folks pay attention.”

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The views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of Children's Health Defense.

Suzanne Burdick, Ph.D., is a reporter and researcher for The Defender based in Fairfield, Iowa. She holds a Ph.D. in Communication Studies from the University of Texas at Austin (2021), and a master's degree in communication and leadership from Gonzaga University (2015). Her scholarship has been published in Health Communication. She has taught at various academic institutions in the United States and is fluent in Spanish.

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